Spiritual Gifts Interview With Andy Reese
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[00:00:00] Hi friends. Today we're speaking with Andy Reese. He's a speaker, a teacher and author, and he's the founder of a church partnership ministry called Freedom Prayer. Andy's joining us today to share his expertise on spiritual gifts. And I just wanted to preface this interview with the awareness that spiritual gifts are interpreted and taught in many different ways.
So before we delve into the topic and gain Andy's insight, I wanted to start with scripture. And from our interview, he really does lean on scripture and his interpretation of the spiritual gifts. So I think this will be extremely beneficial to you. In the Bible, the spiritual gifts are seen as tools for building up the body of Christ.
Empowering believers to serve God and serve others. Paul compares the church to a human body where each part has a unique role to play and all gifts are valuable. [00:01:00] Peter encourages believers to use their gifts to serve others. And Paul explains that love is the most important quality that should accompany the use of our spiritual gifts.
Without love, even the most remarkable of gifts wouldn't be meaningful. So all of this just serves as a powerful reminder that gifts are not for our self-promotion, but for glorifying God and serving others. So I'm very excited to get started. Let's go. I'm excited to hear from you today about spiritual gifts, but first, I'd just like to give you an opportunity to introduce yourself to the Raising Faithful families audience and share a bit about your journey into ministry.
Yeah, well, um, first of all, I'm a grandpa, so that's, that's, uh, probably the most important thing going on right now in my life. I got, uh, seven, seven little wonders and, uh, we just have fun together. So, um, but, uh, I, I was kind of a. Kind of a mutt as a young believer, got saved in [00:02:00] the Jesus movement, um, when it was sweeping the country.
And, uh, 200 kids got saved in my hometown and didn't want to go to church. So I was their pastor. I was a Christian two weeks. They were Christian one week. So I was, you know, mature and uh, and it just kind of grew from there. And, um, I've been involved in lots of, uh, bible studies, lots of, I've been an elder at two or three different churches.
Um. And have taught, uh, repeatedly about all kinds of things. I taught at, at, uh, Vanderbilt for a while, uh, in engineering school, taught at Lipscomb Engineering and then Bible stuff there as well. So I kind of have that background. Uh, I'm in my seventies now, so I'm kind of slowing down and, uh, uh, nursing my joints half the day.
But, uh, anyway, so that's it. And, and along the way, I always felt compelled to write. I wrote a huge engineering book. I'm sure we'll talk about that at another session. [00:03:00] 1400 page engineering book. So, but, um, uh, have, uh, yeah, talk about freedom tools and, uh, spiritual gifts was just, seemed like something that was just begging to be explained in a very simple way because there's, uh, I don't know, there's 37 definitions out there and there's no agreement across the church.
And that has effectively nullified the impact that spiritual gifting as understood in scripture could have. And I was stupid enough to say I could fix that. So anyway. Hey, somebody's got you. So how do you think that understanding spiritual gifts could help parents in raising their children and raising their families?
Yeah. Um, so scripture says we are God's workmanship or craftsmanship created in Christ Jesus. Ephesians two 10 For good works or for to do [00:04:00] certain things, which got the father prepared beforehand. For us to walk in. If that is the only verse you ever learn as a child, that would be enough to guide you through life, you're his workmanship, his craftsmanship.
There are things about your personality and your spiritual gifting that are perfect. For what he's called you to do. There's nothing missing there. There's this thing of, if only I was like this. If only I was like that. You're exactly perfect for what you're made to do. Created in Christ Jesus for good works, for uh, the things that you and Jesus are gonna do together.
Your Big brother and you are gonna do those things together in life. And the father good dad. Prepared everything you need beforehand. Even the Chance encounters the fathers, you know, up there talking to the angels. Go watch this Gabriel, watch this, watch this. Oh, I love that. You know, and see. And so when we see life like that or more like that, then even the tests [00:05:00] and trials kind of take on this.
I. You know, thank you that that trial came. 'cause boy, I'm a lot stronger now, uh, in that area and this is great. And so, uh, that has been a life verse for me. And that verse is what then caused me to write the book on spiritual gifts because it defines that I idea of workmanship. You're his craftsmanship.
What does that mean? So that's kinda where that came from. And in your book you talk about the concept of the gift circle, right? Yeah. Can you explain a little bit about how that works? Yeah, I sure can. And so, um, I, I think there's been incredible confusion about spiritual gifts. There's 27 different definitions, but, but Paul makes it really clear in Romans 12, uh, and Peter makes it even clearer.
Peter says There's two kinds of gifts, speaking gifts and serving gifts. Uh, if anyone speaks, let him speak the words of God. If anyone serves, let him serve with the strength that God provides. And then, um, Paul, [00:06:00] in, in Romans 12, lays out three kinds of speaking gifts and three kinds of serving gifts. And if you think, like, if you ask a question, how many colors are there?
You go, well, there's billions of colors. Yeah, but how many, they all fit into how many categories you go. Oh, seven. Primary colors, Roy G biv. Every color fits into those seven colors as headings, but each one is absolutely unique and yet they fit. And that's exactly how the gifts work. Peter called the gifts, the many colored grace of God.
And so when we think of it that way, we say, okay, there's seven primary colors. There's. The, the speaking gifts are, uh, prophesy, exhorting and teaching, and the serving gifts are serving one who shows mercy and one who gives, and then there's a leadership gift to help organize things when it goes crazy.
And so, uh, and everyone, and there's not just seven kinds of people. There's [00:07:00] infinite kinds under those seven categories and over a number of years. I realized that if we created a circle, that that just kind of encircled the body here, here are all the people that circled the body, that everybody has an arc in that circle.
You're not just one, there's not seven things, but there's infinite number. And so for me, if you look at the gift circle, um, I, you probably can't see it, but, um, but, but so, so my, my arc. Is primarily in exhorting, but it spills over into teaching. So if it's, if it's something where I can teach, but I can, I can exhort into good things, then I'm all in.
And that's where the grace flows in my life. If I. Tornado hit Nashville and I went over and became one who serves for a while. And I, I did that for a week and then thank God there were people who wanted to keep doing that and set up a foundation and, you know, start fixing houses [00:08:00] one at a time. And I just kind of backed out 'cause mm-hmm.
They were super engaged and I was like, yeah, that's good and I'll do it. Um, so we all can visit other gifts, but we live one place. Okay. How have you seen people be really more positively impacted in their lives by getting a deeper understanding of their spiritual gift? Um, when you understand your gifting, um, I.
Ephesians two 10 says, we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works that the Father prepared beforehand. When you understand your gifting, you suddenly become alert to opportunities. It just like I've had more people say, why didn't I know this before? It's like, I look back now and things that happen, I go, oh.
That was the father inviting me with him to use the thing that I'm really good at. It's like, [00:09:00] whoa, this is a really exciting life. And, and when you do that, you find, um, the, the things about, um, if you're faithful and little. He'll give you big thing. This is Jesus talking. If you're faith and little he'll give you more.
If you're faithful in that which belongs to another, he'll give you your own. If you're faithful with money, he'll give you spiritual wealth. And so as we're, we just become faithful in little things and those things are God's mercy. 'cause if we screw those up, the world doesn't end, you know? But, but if I'm president of the US and I screw something up, there's a lot of trouble.
And so, um. We just become faithful in those little things. Listen to God, have a growing relationship, and it becomes the delight of our lives. When you stumble on something that sneaky dad is already set up for you, you're just like, whoa. You know, and you just, you just wanna stop and look up to heaven and say, you are the best, the best.
And so walking in your [00:10:00] gifting cements not in a bad way. It, it, it. It makes your relationship with each member of the Trinity dynamic and real and personal and, um, you realize that that is a pathway to grow in the Lord very fast. Thank you. I like that. The delight of your life. Yeah, that's, so you have a lot of experience working with churches.
Uhhuh, how would, how do you feel that churches could do a better job teaching spiritual gifts and better supporting families and individuals in utilizing them? Yeah, I think that we've, we've missed something. Um. We think one Corinthians 12, we think that list tongues and prophecy, those are spiritual gifts.
That list has never once been called spiritual gifts in scripture only by us. And you just go, wait, huh? And you go look and you go, why didn't I see that? Here's what Paul says in one [00:11:00] Corinthians 12. He lays out a four, four-part structure of the spirit world, and that is the structure in which we live. If you understand that structure, you will naturally supernaturally begin to walk in it and it's, and it's this, Paul says, there's varieties of gifts, but one Holy Spirit.
There's varieties and it's charisma. There's varieties of ministries, but one Jesus, there's varieties of outcomes or effects. Uh, um, energy and energizing, but one father who works all these things. On the other hand, there's varieties of manifestations of the spirit, which are tongues and prophecy. That list of nine things, those are power tools to help us in a time of need.
Every one of those nine is available to any believer when faith meets. Need any one of those [00:12:00] nine. I've, I've s all of those nine have happened in my life at some point in time, do I have the gift of miracles? No. Nobody does it. It's, it's not, there is no gift of miracles when we define 'em that way. We shut the door on, you know, seven or eight of the nine from your life.
'cause you go, it's not my gift. And it's like Satan is smiling. So, um, those are power tools and when faith meets need, you're up on a ladder trying to screw in a bunch of screws and, and, uh. Somebody throws you up a power drill and you go, oh, whoa, where did this come from? I can be done in 10 minutes instead of an hour.
This is amazing. So that's what the, those gifts are. You can. You can be standing. Uh, and they happen not in church as much as in the world. I, I'm going through a checkout line and I see this, this young lady at Target, I think checking out a bunch of stuff and she's just trying and moving really fast and people are impatient when I get up there.
Um, I, I just said to [00:13:00] her, I just want you to know that the father's really proud of you. You're in a tough spot and you're doing well. And she drops whatever she was checking on the counter, runs around the counter, throws her arms around my neck, starts crying and saying, thank you. Thank you. You don't know how much I needed that.
And I go to myself, you're right. I had no idea. But God knew. And she goes back around, wipes her eyes, looks at the rest of the cuspi. Sorry, I don't do that to everybody. And she texted me out and, and I walked outta the store and you could just hear the father going, good job. Good job. And that's, and that's who we are.
We're just messengers. Uh, and, and if we realize we can take a chance, and we're not saying God said, we're just saying what we see. We don't have to make it spiritual, hyper spiritual. I mean, so given that, do you believe the online quizzes that are often recommended by churches to determine what is your spiritual gift, do you think those are accurate?
Um. Not if they [00:14:00] define spiritual gifts the way much of the church does. A lot of people group everything in Romans 12, Ephesians four, and first screen these 12 together in a big mush pile. And then they add a bunch of things. Um, spiritual gifts are Romans 12, and you can find your spiritual gift with two questions because you're either, uh, primarily speaking or primarily serving.
And then it's, you're primarily kind of one of those three on either side. So the first question gets you either speaking or serving. And the second question helps you understand which of the speaking or serving you are. And so, you know, I've done it hundreds of times now in, in classes of people and, and, uh, um, yeah, I remember, uh, uh, after one class was over at Lipscomb, where I taught at, um, university and, uh.
A young woman was crying, leaning up against wall, just crying her eyes out and her friend was hugging her. And I went, oh, I broke another one, Andy. So I walked back and I said, are you okay? She goes, no, no, these are happy [00:15:00] tears. She said, I, I was gonna quit school 'cause I didn't, I was in nursing school and I didn't know why I was there 'cause I was so different from everybody else.
But when you define the gift of one who leads, and then the other one said, I hit her on the shoulder, said, girl, that is you. And she goes, I realize I was. Taking nursing to help lead nurses into a better life for themselves, but I need a nursing degree to do it. And it just all suddenly became clear, I know who I am now.
And I just went, that's incredible. That's what, that's what this can do for you. You know, that kind of thing. Okay. So I've taken those quizzes online and I felt like, you know, this is, I didn't feel like it was wrong for me. But I would love to know what those questions are so that I can see if I end up in the same place.
From your framework. Yeah. Yeah. So the, um, so the first question, um, is, uh, someone comes up to you and says, Hey, um. [00:16:00] City council has somebody give a speech, uh, once a month on some item of interest to them. The council will be there, the mayor will be there, the press will be there. Some business leaders will be there, and I know it's Wednesday and the council meetings on Friday, but the person canceled who's gonna give.
Would you give that talk? Now, if your first reaction is not only no, but h no, and your friends go, no, you don't want to do that, it'll, it'll ruin your life. Then your primary gifting is in the serving side, not the speaking side. But if you go, I could do that. You know, I, I could and your friends go, you know, I mean, it takes some work, but yeah, you could do that.
Your primary gifting is probably in the speaking side. So then if it's in the speaking side, the second question is, um, you can give one sermon at church. Um, would it be, we're a great church. We do a lot of things really, really well, but I've been focused on this one thing where we could, if we could [00:17:00] improve this, we'd really be good.
That would be the prophet. The prophet can look at a bride walking down the aisle, LCA spot of gravy on the hem of her dress from across the church. You know, that's just, that's just who they are. Okay. If your sermon would be, um. There are people in this church who don't get recognized and they do, they hold this church together, they quietly work.
And I have bodyguards sitting next to each one of 'em that they don't know. So they don't get up and run out. 'cause we're gonna call them up one at a time. And I have some people who are gonna say to them what they love about them. Okay. That would be, um, one who encourages that, that that's the heart of the one.
One who encourages. The last speaking gift is teaching. So if your, if your sermon would be, there's this pattern in scripture about sin, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes of both, of pride of life. Those are the three temptations of eve and the three temptations of Christ. I've gotta share this with you because it's, it's crazy.
And when you [00:18:00] get it, temptation will be defined for you in a good way. See, then you'd be one who teaches. And so if you think about those three and you, you have speaking gift, you go. Yeah. The second one would be more like me, or, well, the first one would be more like me. And so you're, you're thinking right now?
Hmm, hmm. I think I've got this. Um, if it's over on the serving side, then um. Pretend that you're a waiter in a big restaurant, big fancy restaurant. There's a table of 12 people. They order these fancy umbrella drinks and it been 20 minutes. The drinks aren't there yet. They're getting impatient. They kind of look at you and you go, I'm sure they're coming.
I'm sure they're coming crowded. All of a sudden, young waiter, you know, just been there week or so. It comes out with the, the tray up over his shoulder of all these drinks. He's walking toward the table. The table looks at him. All of a sudden he forgets. There's a step down to the table, misses a step, the tray tilts forward.
All the drinks go on [00:19:00] the floor with a, with a crash and a splatter, and, and the restaurant goes quiet and you're standing there. Would you, you can make three choices of your first reaction. A would you go straight to the person? Just nothing else matters as much as going straight to the person, comforting them.
B, would you go straight to the mess? It's a mess. There's broken glass and, and drinks on the floor going under the table. We got, we gotta clean up this mess. Go to the kitchen. Okay, we gotta clean up the mess. Or you go, these people order drinks. They paid for the drinks. We're a good restaurant. I'm gonna comp the drinks for them and apologize, and I'm gonna go straight to the kitchen and get the drinks.
If you go straight to the mess, you're one who serves the mess is the thing you see as most important. If you're one who shows mercy, you go straight to the person. That's the thing that's most important. If you're one who gives, you go straight to [00:20:00] the kitchen to give them the thing they paid for and their expectation, and you want to.
Make it better than they thought it would be 'cause that will correct the error. And so you comp the drinks. Now if, if on the other hand you're staying there and you go, well, I could do any of those three things, but if we don't get organized, so I would, I would tell that one to do this and that one to do this and that one to do that.
And I would talk to the people, then you're one who leads, you can see everything at the same time and in your head it, it snaps into organization. You know what to do about it. I was gonna say I was having a hard time with that 'cause I would do all the things and I was trying to think which one would I do first?
You gotta make sure all three get done. So Yeah, mine would be leading, I guess. Yeah, probably one who leads and so you go, okay, that's good because you're half speaking and half organizing and you can, so on the circle, the one who leads, sits between exhorting and showing mercy. And [00:21:00] you can do both equally well.
Okay. I'm glad we went into that 'cause that was really interesting. Yeah. What advice would you give someone who wants to early on identify what their child's spiritual gifts may be and help nurture those as they grow? Yeah. Um, I think that. First of all, just understand the giftings and then watch them and begin giving them opportunities to do different things.
We don't wanna funnel them into one thing early in life. We want them to get a broad thing of experience, and in their early teens, they can start to kind of begin to focus a little bit because that's when identity becomes, uh, very important. They begin to see God made me special in this kind of a way.
And they then [00:22:00] begin to, uh, not just see opportunities, but they begin to connect with the Father. They begin to see that they're not walking alone in any of this, that. They're his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works that the Father has prepared beforehand. It's all prepared for them. They don't have to make something happen.
They don't have to think they're being overlooked. All they just do is say, say, um. My job is to say yes to small things, hidden things to serving others. That's my job. God's job is to take those small things. And grow them into big things. God's job is to take the hiddenness and make it visible. God's job is to take me serving others in their ministry and give me a ministry of my own.
And so he first wants me to be faithful in the little and the hidden, and in serving other people so that my ego doesn't get tied into it at the beginning. Yeah. [00:23:00] Thank you. And then I always like to close out our interviews by asking, and this does not have to be on the topic that we've talked about. If you could give one piece of advice to the whole world at one time somehow, what would that be?
I think the piece of advice would be, Jesus says, unless you change and become like a little child. You cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Um, he says, let the little children come to me and do not hinder them. Um, it would be better if you hinder one of these children that a millstone be hung around your neck and you'd be cast at the bottom of the sea.
Um, it, it says you need to change and become like a little child. I think the advice that I would give is God is not. Asking us or commanding us to become childish. He's commanding us or asking us to become childlike. And childlike is someone who [00:24:00] believes God without a bunch of rationalization and a bunch of questioning.
A childlike says, if you hold my hand, I'll go anywhere. If you're with me, I'll go anywhere. If you're not with me, I'll wait until you're with me. And Jesus, you know, says again and again and again. Become like a child. It'd be better if a millstone was thrown around your neck if you harm one of these who is childlike, who is, is like a little child.
And so I think, um, it's, it's, you know, I'm a, you know, a consultant and it's got a master's degrees and blah, blah, blah. I'm written a textbook, but the thing I, the thing that's most important to me is keeping a heart that's childlike and believing of God in any situation. I found that to be, you know, you can lay down at night and it's almost like you hold the father's hand and say it was a good day.
Yeah. And, and that, and that's real. It's [00:25:00] not being made up. It's real. It's, he's shown me it's real when he's, he's. Shown me things that I wouldn't know even in my professional career where I know something and I go up and I, I, I say something to a, a public works director in a, in a big city, and she goes, how the h did you know that?
And I said, it just, you just, it felt like that. And she goes. I'm gonna call you next week. I want you to help me. And I got a, you know, $2 million contract for six years from one word of the father and me being obedient to it. And you just go, whoa, it can work like that. And yeah. That's great advice. Thank you.
And I like the theme of obedience in that situation. And with the situation at the grocery store. Yeah, with the clerk. You were just obedient [00:26:00] to what God told you. And so many times we feel that in our spirit, in our heart, and it's like we start questioning it. We immediately add those rationalizations and question it and talk ourselves out of it.
Which is exactly what being childlike would remove entirely. Right, and, and the obedience is childlike as well. In other words, you don't impose something on somebody, you offer it. With open hands to them. It's a, everything is a gift. You're not, you're not lecturing, you're not saying, you know, if you blah, blah bum.
If they ask for that, then you can sit down and very gently go to the next step. But otherwise, everything is offered as a gift of encouragement to people. They need that way more than correction, um, as a starter. And, and we can do that. We can, we can, uh, let the kindness of the Lord lead them. Rather than the commands of the Lord.
Absolutely. So for anyone that wants to learn more from you or go deeper from you or find your [00:27:00] books, where can they connect with you? Um, there's a, a book called The Spiritual Gifts Blueprint, um, which came out maybe a year ago. And there's a workbook that has just about everything we talked about today in it.
Um, and it's, it's written. For groups to go through with it together. Um, it's got, uh, the, the, the head of Lipscomb endorsed it and one of the internationally known profits, James Gall endorsed it. So I got very conservative and very charismatic. Both good. Yeah, this is good. So I think I'm, I think I'm right there.
Down the middle. It explains, for example, it explains when we get to the manifestations of the spirit, people have said, your chapter on tongues. Absolutely explained it in a way that me and my pastor who totally disagreed, go, yeah, this is good. Because it lays out the science of tongues as well as just the whatever.
And [00:28:00] uh, people go, wow, that is a, that is an amazing way to use your brain, or your brain can't dominate crazy. Yeah. And so it's a, it's a very, very, why did it happen when people first got filled with the Holy Spirit if it was stupid? Yeah. Yeah. And so, so anyway, it's a, it's something where you can look at and go, I'm gonna look at it not as a charismatic thing.
I'm gonna look at it as a God thing, as one of the power tools, the nine power tools that he lays out. And I'm gonna see why that and prophecy are the most common.
